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Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho's avatar

You do not consider Gemma 4 an open weight model released by a non-Chinese company, specifically Google? Or is April too far in the past to count? ... maybe it is, Anthropic released three since then.

My own expectation is that the frontier becomes too expensive for most jobs and we end up running local models, or open models in our own cloud, for most use cases.

Ethan Mollick's avatar

Gemma is good but not frontier.

Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho's avatar

True, but it is an open source model that did not come from China.

Ethan Mollick's avatar

There are lots of non-frontier models from lots of companies, including Mistral from France.

Will S Johnston's avatar

It would be interesting to see a chart showing token costs when an agent runs for days comparing the open vs. frontier models. It seems that if the agentic capability is growing this fast, the costs could get out of control quickly. This in turn seems like it would be a big push toward open and undermine frontier unless it's a critical or unique project. Am i missing something?

Kevin McLeod's avatar

The glass ceiling is the symbolic. This doesn't even reach the level of the brain's compute which is multi-dimensional. It's an interesting threshold, but binary is limited.

Paul Wilkinson 🧢's avatar

After working with 90-120 students a day plus colleagues and family and friends, managing 2-4 agents seems easy. Reporting news with dozens of sources and answering to multiple editors was good prep, too.

Mike Czerwinski's avatar

The "expertise, not profession" finding lands the same way at the single-session level. Better models cede more generation to you for free. The check on whether the generation is right does not get cheaper at the same rate, and it is bounded by what you actually know in the domain. That is why the manager-stance works: managing is mostly inspection, and inspection is where the expertise gets spent.

Wrote up the two-axis version of this (cession vs verification) here, if useful: https://jugeni.substack.com/p/vibe-coding-has-two-axes-the-second

Eric Porres's avatar

My experiments with Fable 5 led me to say that it’s AGI. I haven’t moved from that position.

Oddish's avatar

I'm devastated that this had nothing to do with chat bots.

Ethan Mollick's avatar

But it does! We are moving from chatbots to agentic systems, which is what the adoption graphs are showing

Oddish's avatar

But babe I wanted poetry to smarterchild

Tosc's avatar

I use chatgpt pretty regularly but am behind the curve as to how to use it, mainly as a research assistant, an entity to bounce ideas off of, or as an editor. I work at an ngo type org and direct an office that educates the public on a specific issue (think the environment, economic policy or immigration). I can't code and would not even know what to code for. I am not building a new technology or launching a business (yet??). Given my kind of position, which I think a lot of people are in, what would some of you use AI for as an entity to help educate the public more effectively on a given issue? I'd be curious to start a conversation along these lines with anyone who might be interested.